EN 209: Top Reading Responses/Week XIV

M A I N * N E W S * T O P I C S * L I N K S * R E S E R V E S

Excellent/Interesting Observations and Questions

Here are the names of the people who got "+'s" on their reading responses for Week XIV, along with excerpts from people's observations and a list of the "top 10+" questions asked. (Note: when listing the questions, I'll always copy the wording from the first time the question was asked and put the author's name first in the list of names in parentheses after the question, so that everyone who asked a roughly similar question gets some recognition, but the first person who asked it gets more.)

Week XIV: Erdrich/Bowen/B>

Honor Roll: Stephanie Armstrong, Andrea Caccese, Jeffrey Ciminesi, Celeste Creel, Jinny Compton, Kristine Cuomo, Jim Degolyer, Stefanie Evans, Marcy Gambino, Jason Golubski, Russ Leo, and Jake Proper.

Excerpts

"One of the reasons I think this is such a complex novel is beacuse it contradicts much of what we imagine Native American culture to be like. This book goes beyond the stereotype of the wise, tree-hugging, peace-pipe smoking,hunting and gatering, victimized Native Americans, without falling into the other stereotypes in doing so.By these I am referring to the more negative ones.The characters in this book represent those who became stuck between two worlds and the difficult situations they find themselves in when these two cultures merge. Some find it harder then others but all are powerless to really stop Western influence no matter how 'powerful' they believe themselves to be. Like Fleur, for example." (Celeste Creel)
"I really can't seperate what is supernatural from those things which could simply be strange happenings or superstition. For instance, the Lake Man, Misshepeshu. There is no concrete evidence in the text that he actually exists, other than in the local superstitions and presumptions about Fleur and the Lake itself. And the Bear? I know that the appearance of the Bear is important, and that there is some significance in the fact that Nanupush saw the last Bear hunt, but I really cannot put my finger on what significance it holds." (Russ Leo)
"Tracks was unlike any story so far that I have read about Native Americans. In most stories, Native Americans are percieved as a tight culture. They always stick together as a kind of 'noble savage.' Even in Bowen he shows the Senacas as a close tribe who always stuck togther against outside influence and forces. Erdrich portrays Native Americans in a far different light. The tribe is very fragmented and there is much infighting within the tribe. There is even betrayal between Margaret and Fluer, and they were susposed to be on the same side. The authors purpose in doing this could be for many reasons. It could be that she was trying to dispel the 'noble savage' idea and show more of the truth. It could also be that she wants to show that even a tight knit society can be torn apart when dissater strikes and turns their culture upside down." (Jake Proper)
"It was also beneficial to learn about Native Americans, so little is emphasized on them throughout the first twelve years of schooling. It would be interesting to know if the conditions that the Native Americans had to endure throughout the novel were accurate to what actually happened." (Kristine Cuomo)
"i don't know whether or not i think there were ghosts in the story. the only reason i think that there might have been is because of page 35. Nanapush is talking about Fluer's return and he said that after she came back the ghost of Jean Hat started appearing and his cart rumbled past on the darkest nights. this could be a freak ghost appearance, but it could also be blamed on Fluer." (Jinny Compton)
"I tend to think that the haunting in this story was both literal and figurative. I think that Fleur was the literal ghost, and the figurative haunting has to do with the heritage of the tribe. Although they may have lost their land, the haunting aspect is that they will live there forever. I wondered if the trees had some other significance, possibly haveing to do with roots. Although the trees were knocked doen, their roots will always be there. I don't know, it made sense to me." (Stephanie Armstrong)
"In so far as this being a ghost story I would have to say that the real ghost in the novel is the presence of what once was. A people, their beliefs, and way of life is what is truely haunting." (Celeste Creel)
"Ironically, even though christianity opposes gambeling, Pauline still gambled in a sense with god. For instance, by not going to the bathroom, she was gambeling for acceptance by god in this life and any after life she hoped to experience. If Pauline was not able to keep from going to the bathroom at times other than at dawn or dusk, she would lose in her 'bet' with god.
"I think Nanapush saw that Pauline was troubleing herself much more than necessary. This is why he told her stories about water and enticed her to drink more tea than she should have. When Pauline broke her bet with god and went to the bathroom during the afternoon, she realized that she could no longer carry on the bet because it had been broken. Even though she continued to gamble in other ways, Nanapush had sucessfully stopped one of Pauline's foolish habits." (Bill Belscher)
"I have noticed a similarity between some of the stories from Bowen's One More Story and Erdrich's Tracks. Card games have been a major seen of action in both cases. In Bowen's stories a group of men are playing cards and drinking when some how or another they see the Devil. In Tracks, after the card game is over and Fluer is assulted there is mass destruction to the meat house. The source of this could be mother nature, Fluer, or even a higher power. Now I don't know that much about Native American culture so i'm just throwing out an idea here. Maybe gambling and drinking is something that is frowned in Native American religion. Their God, gods, or spirits some how punish them for doing these not so favorable deeds. By scaring the individual, the spirits and/or gods hope to put people back on what they see as the correct path of life." (Jason Golubski)
"Another interesting similarity occurs in Bowen's 'The Power Line.' Here the dead are found in trees. Fluer's second child is also buried in the trees." (Stefanie Evans)
"I really really enjoyed hearing DuWayne Bowen speak on wednesday. It is just so different when you get to hear the stories from the author because they have facts and reasons behind everything and their little details that we don't understand are explained.
"I really realized that every single story have meaning and that even if they are made up they still come from somewhere. I was really impressed when he talked about how in his time stories were being told to make a point and teach something to kids. Everytime they would hear about it or see something that reminded them of the story they would know that it wasn't good for them, and that for the rest of their lives.
"I have so much respect for him in a sense that we wanted to write to share, he didn't seem to care if his book was popular or not. Stories were told to him and I felt that he thought it was his turn to tell them. I really liked that he took the time to come and talk to us about something that he probably repeated millions of times but that his so important to him." (Karine Torlet)
"One More Story by DuWayne Bowen was an interesting collection of stories. I don't understand the reason for the simplicity of the stories. Perhaps he is retelling them the way he heard them and it is most likely that he heard them as a child so retells them the same way to remain consistent with the way the stories were intended to be told." (Bryant Loomis) One More Story and Tracks? Both deal with and are written by Native Americans. Both make use of the supernatural. Both make use of nature and connect it with the supernatural. The main difference between the two seems to be that Erdrich plaaces more hidden meaning in, and has more to accomplish than Bowen." (Jeff Green)
"Some of Bowen's stories seem to have a specific purpose like most of the other works which we have read but many of them seem to have no purpose at all. For instanct 'the lights,' what was his purpose there. A light keeps coming to visit a guy and one day wakes him up with a prick. You never even find out whatthe lights are or why they come.
"Also what was the purpose of the guy with the top hat in "the great swamp", why would a guy like that be out there. One thing I first thought was that the guy could be Abe Lincon. But then when I read the last portion I came to a new conclusion. This occured at a time when the Indian people were being moved around by the government. Maybe the man in this story is an Uncle Sam type figure representing the US government, because the government was an evil force to these people as the being in the swamp was.
"The Stories Which I liked were 'The Power Line,' 'The Card Players,' 'The Great Swamp' and 'One More Story.' My Favorite was 'The Power line,' it seemed very real and the only one which I belived to be true. It had a good plot and I liked the characters motives. One which I did not understand but still liked was 'One More Story,' some of it made sense like the cans being linked to the old people's lives, but what about the cats? Were they supposed to be the old people, Thats the impression I got; not very beliveable." (Jim Degolyer)
"I am choosing do do my last reading response on the stories written by Bowen. I like the stories in this book because some of them have no real cultural statement that they are trying to make they are just for fun. One of the stories that I found was interesting was 'The Car Wreck.' In this story it showed some of the different beliefs about death and ghosts. After the ghost had vanished the men poured whiskey on the ground to try and please the ghosts. I thought that was interesting. Another interesting thing that I discovered in these stories was the things that they had in common with other stories. In the story 'The Power Line' the theme of the dead calling the living to join them reappears. We have seen this in many other stories this semester in stories like the one by Oates. Two more themes that showed up in these stories were the ghosts on bridges and the association between card playing and gambling and ghosts or the devil." (Jeffrey Ciminesi)
"In the story of 'The Power Line' from DuWayne Bowen's One More Story, the power lines must be symbolic of something. Both the mother and the daughter went there to die. It seems that this power line was central to the infiltration of the 'white man's culture' into the native culture. It was a path into the village where people would 'drink' - alcohol did not exist in this culture before it was introduced by the 'white man.' Power lines themselves were an imposition on the natural habitat. It seems that the adulterous action of the man was caused by alcohol and it took place near the power lines. Perhaps this is to show the evils that stem from a culture shock that takes place when a more 'advanced' society infiltrates a less 'advanced' one. Perhaps the mother's skeleton disappeared when the people discovered it because the spirit knew that her daughter would find out and eventually come to her. Perhaps she was waiting and signaling for her daughter to return to her - she used the dear as a directive to have her remains discovered. I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean in context with the messages about 'white' culture infiltrating native culture. Could it be because of the dominant nature spirits are said to have in the native culture? There is definitely a strong belief in the afterlife. Could it be that this was the mother's way of punishing her husband or making him an example? - because the whole town knew of the events and the bodies were discovered by the townspeople." (Andrea Caccese)

Top 10+ Questions
1. Why does [Erdrich] go to such great lengths to combine Catholicism with the native religion and superstitions? What is the connection between the two ideologies? What social/political statement is Erdrich making? (Russ Leo) I really liked the comment in the back of the novel about this book being a about the experince of Native americans like Toni Morrisons Beloved about the experice of Black.I have made up my mind about what that statement means but I would like to know what others think it means. Is that statememt one to be agreed with or not? Why or why not? (Celeste Creel)

2. What did Erdrich want to accomplish by writing this book? What was her purpose in telling us the tale about Nanapush, Fluer and Pauline? (Jinny Compton, Mike Copella, Celeste Creel) What could be the authors' motivations for writing this?? (Liza Infantino) What is Erdrich trying to say about Fleur in her form of ambiguity... is she trying to get the reader to have several interpretations of what Fleur is, or is she emphasizing the fact that Fleur isn't really anything physical at all? (Brad Beck) I have to wonder what nanapush's goal was in telling Lulu the story in which he did. (Sheryl Harvey) Are Pauline's stories about Fleur really true accounts of what happened or were her own feelings getting in the way of telling the truth? (Kristine Cuomo) What are Bowen's motivations in writing this book? (Jeff Green) In Bowen's stories it seemed that the people were quick to assume that ghost were the cause of many daily events. Why is it that what most cultures would try to explain scientificly is explained by the supernatural in the Bowen's stories? Does this have anything to do with Native American beliefs? (Marcy Gambino) Most of the time ghosts appear to teach the living lessons in Native American culture. What other cultures have this belief and how do they compare and contrast to the Native American culture? (Stefanie Evans)

3. Overall have we seen any common links on the reasons ghost come, or haunting takes place? Is there a certain type of person that ghost haunt or is it just random? have we had any proof that these occurances might actually be real? (Shana Sek) How does Bowen regard similar stories from other cultures [than his] own? What effect do outside sources have on the Native American storytelling tradition? (Russ Leo) [In the second half of Bowen's talk,] did he go deeper in why he decided to write these stories expect because they wanted to be shared? Did they have a lot of meaning in his private life? (Karine Torlet) [In "The Power Line,"] could it be that this was the mother's way of punishing her husband or making him an example? - because the whole town knew of the events and the bodies were discovered by the townspeople. (Andrea Caccese) What do the cans symbolize or represent [in "One More Story"]? What is the main purpose of this story? (Ryan Destro) Many of the stories contain drinking or problems with alcohol. Do you think that this is because of the prevelance of alcoholism on the reservations, or do you think that it was just a vice of the individual person and could have been a different problem instead? Do you think that ghosts come back to teach lessons in all cultures or just the Native American culture? Why do you think that they teach lessons so much in the Native American culture? (Jeffrey Ciminesi) I noticed that many of the ghosts in his story appeared when someone was doing something wrong like gambling, drinking, and staying out late. Yet, at other times they seemed to just appear randomly for no particular reason. Do you feel that the stories Bowen told supported the notion from early that native american ghosts appear to correct bad behavior? If this was not their reason for appearence what was it? (Marcy Gambino) Many of hte stories had a moral to them almost, like the ghosts were appearing when something bad happening; ie--drinking, etc. Is this common of Seneca Literature also to have a moral? (Lindsay Robinson) Why is it that when ever there is gambling involved in a piece of Native American literature (well the ones that I've read anyway...) that a ghost or whatever comes and tries to get them to stop and sometimes the ghost turns into the devil? What is that all about?? (Jamie Coniglio) Why is the devil invovled in the card games and gambling? Do they feel as though gambling is evil? (Alex Herrera) Why include the story of the devil? Does this say anything about Bowens religious belifes? Is he a christian? (Jim Degolyer) What role does the Devil play in the Native American culture? Does [Bowen's] Christian background ever conflict with [his] Native American heritage, and how does this affect [his] stories? (Russ Leo)

4. Why does [Bowen] go into so little detail in his stories? I think that if his goal if to convey modern Indian culture wouldn't it be better done with more description? (Kris Krajewski) What is the main market for Bowens writing, where is it sold, just in the area? What kind of research did Bowen do prior to writing the book?, did he base it solely on the words of the people of the Senecas? (Amelia Vanni) What kind of audience was this book geared towards? (Bethany Prechtl) Why are the stories told in such a simplistic way? (Bryant Loomis, Jamie Coniglio, Alex Herrera, Jim Degolyer) Is it because that's the way that they are told, in a campfire sorta way?? (Jamie Coniglio) What did Bowen gain by writing the stories in the way he did? (Bethany Prechtl) Is the order in which the stories [in Bowen's collection are] told significant at all? (Bryant Loomis) Were all these stories put together for a purpose or are they meant to be read indivdually? (Jim Delgolyer) Why did Bowen start most of the stories the same way with "Now I'm going to tell you about..." and "Now this happened one time."? (Nate Cooper)

5. Why do ghosts often want to take the living with them? Is the life that they are living better and they want to share it, or are they just lonely? (Jeffrey Ciminesi, Stefanie Evans) What is the symbolism behind all the card games? Why does Erdrich use that approach? (Jake Proper, Jessica Sandeen) Is this use of animals a common theme in Native American writing? If so, what is the significane of this? (Marcy Gambino, Lindsay Robinson, Kristen Konieczny, Salim Miller) Why did so many of Bowen's stories include railroad tracks? Was this just a coincidence or was it a symbol for something? (Marcy Gambino) Was the story of the Giant deer supposed to teach a lesson in messing with wild life? (Jim Degolyer) What does Bowen want us to learn from ["The Power Line"]? (Leslie Strandburg) Is it possible that the lake man does not exist other than in the minds of the Indians? (Bill Belscher) What evidence is there in the book that Fleur Did drown or Did Not drown? (Stephanie Stoddard, Ryan Barone) What is the significance of the water? I think that the water and the waterman have some sort of powers. They might have posessed Fleur, and have control over her also. (Megan Hulbert) I found [Bowen's] stories to be interesting, yet incomplete. i guess that it was part of his plan for we, the readers, to insert explainations. like in one more story, whats the dilly with the hot cans? who were the black cats, and why did it end so abruptly? (Amy Carlson) Why do you believe Erdrich made her characters afraid of the spirits? I thought that an Indian's spirit was suppose to be there to help at a time when you need it at least that's what an Indian's spirit did in the story of Bruchac's Bone Girl. (Sheryl Harvey) If Moses has all of these magic "potions" and such, then why are all of the townsfolk wary of Fleur and not Moses as well? (Kristine Cuomo)

6. [In Bowen's] powerline story, what was the significance of some men seeing the mother's bones in the tree and others not seeing them? is it just because some believe in ghosts and others don't? was it the mother's motivation to get her daughter to go to the powerline so they can be together? was it really her mother that the daughter thought she heard calling for her? why would her mother want her to die? wouldn't she rather have her stay alive and enjoy life? (Leslie Strandburg) What had caused the little girl's death in the story "The Power Line?" (Bethany Prechtl) [In "One More Story,"] what is the purpose of the cats-are they really the elderly people who the orphan girl stayed with? (Ryan Destro, Jim Degolyer) Why was the pig tapping at the window? Why did the tin cans burn the girls hands? (Ryan Destro) Was the Swamp Ghost supposed to represent something? What were the lights and why did they try to hurt the sleeping man? (Jim Degolyer)

7. What is the relivance of having Nanapush have a flashback of his previous wifes on page220? (Jinny Compton) What is the sinificance of Margaret in the book? (Russ Leo)

8. What does Nanpush possibly see in Margaret? (I am just curious people's opinions on this b/c I couldn't stand her.) (Stephanie Stoddard) Why did she choose to only buy her land when she could have bought everybody's? (Noelle Dull) If Margaret could just sell out everybody else and only take care of herself, how could they all still love her? (Jessi Scirto, Noelle Dull) Why did Fluer allow Pauline back into her house after all the trouble she had caused for her family? (Jason Golubski, Stefanie Evans) Was it because this was part of the old ways and the tribe's beliefs? (Stefanie Evans)

9. What is the deal with Pauline and Fleur? Pauline seems to have these mood swings. She hates fleur then she worships her then she hates her etc.. I also wonder if Pauline has some powers of her own. (Stephanie Armstrong, Stephanie DiBlasi) Is it because she can basically get any guy who she wants? Is it the relationship she has with nanipush? (Stephanie DiBlasi) I'm also very curious as to why Pauline believes that she should or needs to become a nun? What is she hoping to accomplish by this? (Sarah Boyle) Does Pauline torture herself in an attempt to put herself through th pain she has caused others? (Sophie for example) (Stephanie Stoddard) I also am curious as to why Pauline feels compelled to torture herself by becoming a nun and following all of her bizzare rituals (wearing her shoes backwards, etc)? What did she feel that she had to repent for? (Jinny Compton) Why does Pauline torture herslf so fiercely, is she trying to rid herself of her impurities. if so, she would not be able to since the priest said she was impure because of her native american heritage. (Sarah McNaughton) Did other people view Pauline as a Saint or were these thoughts just in her own head? (Jason Golubski)

10. Why does Nanapush just let Eli say in his house for six days and sulk? Was Eli awaiting pity that he did not receive? What is the status of Eli and Fleur? Is their a possibility or a relationship? (Ryan Barone) Why does Fleur always come back after she drowns, and noone sees her, but everyone else actually dies? (Megan Hulbert) Why would she try to drown others when they tried to rescue her? (Theresa O'Hern)

11. How much of [Erdrich's] story is based on truth, how much did she just make up to create a more believable story? (Jinny Compton) Were any of these events in [Erdrich's] book based on historical nature, did she make this all up, did this evolve from folklore, does any of this hold factual basis? (Beth Karnyski) What made Bowen be inspired to write this book? (Kristen Konieczny) Do any of you think that any of his stories are actually true or at least som truth in them?? (Jamie Coniglio, Bethany Prechtl, Nate Cooper) Are there other people are from around here that has heard any of these stories? (Salim Miller)

12. Does [Pauline] really have the power to make people do things with her mind? Did she really cause Eli and Sophie to do the things that they did? Or was it alla coincidence? (Jinny Compton) Is Fluer really supernatural or is that just Pauline's imagination? (Jake Proper, Jessica Sandeen) Or does she just act in a certain way to make people think she does? (Jessica Sandeen) Could the water man really have gotten Fleur pregnant? (Megan Hulbert) What do you think High Hat was in "The Great Swamp"? (Russ Leo) Is it a common practice for Native Americans to "bury" their dead in trees? (Stefanie Evans)

13. What happened to Fleur [at the end of the novel] and where was she? (Jessi Scirto) Did anything ever happen to Pauline's baby? (Noelle Dull)

M A I N * N E W S * T O P I C S * L I N K S * R E S E R V E S

EN 209: Novels and Tales, Spring 1999
Created: 5/13/99, 3:29 pm
Last modified: 5/13/99, 3:29 pm